Discussion:
Dumbfuck statement of the month.
(too old to reply)
Michael
2005-06-30 02:19:12 UTC
Permalink
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a vital
region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the ultimate triumph
over radicalism and terror. And we fight today because terrorists want to
attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is where they are making
their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll fight them across the world,
and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005

Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.

Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital part
of the world? What is it about this particular part of the world that
makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your administration's whole
rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain English - is the USA's interest in
that?
mitch gorman
2005-06-30 02:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a vital
region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the ultimate triumph
over radicalism and terror. And we fight today because terrorists want to
attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is where they are making
their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll fight them across the world,
and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital part
of the world? What is it about this particular part of the world that
makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your administration's whole
rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain English - is the USA's interest in
that?
and what is your explanation for *why* the terrorists are "making
their stand" in iraq?
Michael
2005-06-30 03:36:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June 28,
2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
and what is your explanation for *why* the terrorists are "making
their stand" in iraq?
Well gee, *that's* simple enough: there's *oil* there. Haven't you heard?
Cheapest and simplest on the planet to bring to market.

From America's side, oil (cheap oil, especially,) literally means survival,
*controlling* oil means controlling China's growth, and controlling China's
growth means having considerable input abvou how China eventually will run
the world's economy. Period. Full stop.

From *their* (the "terrorist's") side... it's all Arab oil (and by default,
arguably Muslim oil,) and America not only is *the* largest oil consuming
entity on the planet - by far - but it's also the second largest entity on
Earth (China is the first, but no yet the most powerful,) which is
antithetical to the rise of "Islam" - however Islam's most successful
demagogues define the word at a given moment - to global supremacy.

Errr... in simple language, they "own" the world's energy, they're holding
it to ransom, and they expect either their enemy's capitulation or their own
extermination.

Oh, and... whaddaya really mean by the word "terrorists", anyhow? They're
simply a "new" type of large-scale warrior... one which should have been
taken intop priority account since 1948 at the very latest. They've been
around in roughly their current configuration for more than 3/4 of a
century, and without them, the state of Israel wouldn't exist (at last not
in its current form.)

If the USA - the largest and most deadly military force hasn't found
effective ways to deal them in almost a century, isn't there something from
Darwin that we all oughta learn?
sam booka
2005-06-30 08:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June 28,
2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
and what is your explanation for *why* the terrorists are "making
their stand" in iraq?
Well gee, *that's* simple enough: there's *oil* there. Haven't you
heard? Cheapest and simplest on the planet to bring to market.
From America's side, oil (cheap oil, especially,) literally means
survival, *controlling* oil means controlling China's growth, and
controlling China's growth means having considerable input abvou how
China eventually will run the world's economy. Period. Full stop.
From *their* (the "terrorist's") side... it's all Arab oil (and by
default, arguably Muslim oil,) and America not only is *the* largest
oil consuming entity on the planet - by far - but it's also the second
largest entity on Earth (China is the first, but no yet the most
powerful,) which is antithetical to the rise of "Islam" - however
Islam's most successful demagogues define the word at a given moment -
to global supremacy.
Errr... in simple language, they "own" the world's energy, they're
holding it to ransom, and they expect either their enemy's
capitulation or their own extermination.
Oh, and... whaddaya really mean by the word "terrorists", anyhow?
They're simply a "new" type of large-scale warrior... one which should
have been taken intop priority account since 1948 at the very latest.
They've been around in roughly their current configuration for more
than 3/4 of a century, and without them, the state of Israel wouldn't
exist (at last not in its current form.)
If the USA - the largest and most deadly military force hasn't found
effective ways to deal them in almost a century, isn't there something
from Darwin that we all oughta learn?
This economic essay gets an F-. Next...
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build
it." Sam Rayburn
Gregor
2005-06-30 03:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a vital
region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the ultimate triumph
over radicalism and terror. And we fight today because terrorists want to
attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is where they are making
their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll fight them across the world,
and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital part
of the world? What is it about this particular part of the world that
makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your administration's whole
rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain English - is the USA's interest in
that?
Rumsfeld then and now, such irony;
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/06/27/during-vietnam-rumsfeld-criticized-administration-for-credibility-gap
Troels Oxenvad
2005-06-30 03:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a vital
region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the ultimate triumph
over radicalism and terror. And we fight today because terrorists want to
attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is where they are making
their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll fight them across the world,
and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital part
of the world? What is it about this particular part of the world that
makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your administration's whole
rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain English - is the USA's interest in
that?
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
Michael
2005-06-30 03:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troels Oxenvad
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June
28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
BobF
2005-06-30 09:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
How many of you have actually *read* things like the 911 commission report?
Or any other fact-based accounting of the state of things and how current
events came to be?

I didn't think so ...
sam booka
2005-06-30 11:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
Post by Michael
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
How many of you have actually *read* things like the 911 commission
report? Or any other fact-based accounting of the state of things and
how current events came to be?
I didn't think so ...
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalalalalala..."
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!

Now that Iran's new President apointee has been outed as one of the
terrorist kidnappers during the Tehran Hostage Crisis, I wonder how the
comlib looney left will react? If Bush embargoes, or even attacks, I
suppose they will side with Iran.
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build
it." Sam Rayburn
Organfreak
2005-06-30 14:07:06 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 11:53:28 GMT, someone purporting to be sam
Post by sam booka
Post by BobF
Post by Michael
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
How many of you have actually *read* things like the 911 commission
report? Or any other fact-based accounting of the state of things and
how current events came to be?
I didn't think so ...
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalalalalala..."
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
BobF
2005-06-30 14:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 11:53:28 GMT, someone purporting to be sam
Post by sam booka
Post by BobF
Post by Michael
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
How many of you have actually *read* things like the 911 commission
report? Or any other fact-based accounting of the state of things and
how current events came to be?
I didn't think so ...
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalalalalala..."
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
Organfreak
2005-06-30 14:41:56 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 09:15:26 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 11:53:28 GMT, someone purporting to be sam
Post by sam booka
Post by BobF
Post by Michael
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
You mean there *was* one???
How many of you have actually *read* things like the 911 commission
report? Or any other fact-based accounting of the state of things and
how current events came to be?
I didn't think so ...
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalalalalala..."
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
I don't have a copy. But it has been reported in almost every news
source in the land.

-OF
Eric Margheim
2005-06-30 15:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Post by sam booka
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go
"Lalalalalalalala..."
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Post by sam booka
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
I don't have a copy. But it has been reported in almost every news
source in the land.
I believe the report said there was no "direct" connection between Saddam
and 9/11. I think it said that there may have been contact/dialog between
Saddam and terrorist leaders.
Organfreak
2005-06-30 15:53:41 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 10:32:30 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by sam booka
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Post by sam booka
They just stick their fingers in their ears and go
"Lalalalalalalala..."
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Post by sam booka
whenever anyone points out that Saddam's communications with Al Qaeda
were so extensive, he even had a ministry in charge of them. They also
don't like to be reminded that no matter how bad the insurgency gets,
they haven't even begun to approach Saddam's between-war killing spree
at the rate of 17.1 innocent people PER HOUR!
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
I don't have a copy. But it has been reported in almost every news
source in the land.
I believe the report said there was no "direct" connection between Saddam
and 9/11. I think it said that there may have been contact/dialog between
Saddam and terrorist leaders.
Yes, the part where he listened to their requests and turned them
down.

-OF
Eric Margheim
2005-06-30 16:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by Eric Margheim
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11 and
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
I don't have a copy. But it has been reported in almost every news
source in the land.
I believe the report said there was no "direct" connection between Saddam
and 9/11. I think it said that there may have been contact/dialog between
Saddam and terrorist leaders.
Yes, the part where he listened to their requests and turned them
down.
No the part where he sent Palestinian families money for suicide bombings.
Organfreak
2005-06-30 16:24:38 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 11:08:56 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Troels Oxenvad
Post by Organfreak
Post by Eric Margheim
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
The report said plainly that there was no connection between 9/11
and
Post by Organfreak
Post by Eric Margheim
Post by Organfreak
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Iraq. Period.
Please provide a page number - I don't recall reading that.
I don't have a copy. But it has been reported in almost every news
source in the land.
I believe the report said there was no "direct" connection between Saddam
and 9/11. I think it said that there may have been contact/dialog
between
Post by Organfreak
Post by Eric Margheim
Saddam and terrorist leaders.
Yes, the part where he listened to their requests and turned them
down.
No the part where he sent Palestinian families money for suicide bombings.
Saddam was a bad man, we all agree. But that has zero to do with 9/11
or Al Queda.
BobF
2005-06-30 16:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Saddam was a bad man, we all agree. But that has zero to do with 9/11
or Al Queda.
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.169852178&par=0
sam booka
2005-06-30 19:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Saddam was a bad man, we all agree. But that has zero to do with 9/11
or Al Queda.
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.169852178&
par=0
Gee, I guess Saddam only covered his tracks well enough for liberals and
their MSM. Maybe that's why most people know he was directly in the Al
Qaeda loop. I imagine the US givernment has a lot more information,
including details of Iraqi front companies' stock options on Sept 10,
2001 as well.
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build
it." Sam Rayburn
BobF
2005-06-30 16:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Saddam was a bad man, we all agree. But that has zero to do with 9/11
or Al Queda.
You can start with 9/11 Comm Report pages 58, 66, 78 ...

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
sam booka
2005-06-30 19:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Saddam was a bad man, we all agree. But that has zero to do with 9/11
or Al Queda.
You can start with 9/11 Comm Report pages 58, 66, 78 ...
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
The link was too big for my bandwidth. Does it also have the unclassified
portions of Charles Deulfer's testimony about Saddam's extensive JIT WMD
capabilities, which were ignored by the election year Kerry puff media??

Also, I wonder what the classified portions were?
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build it."
Sam Rayburn
Scott Vita
2005-06-30 21:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
See page 66, paragraph three. No evidence of a collaborative operational
relationship with al Qaeda or evidence that Iraq was involved in developing
or carrying out any attacks against the United States.


Does that spell it out well enough for you?





Scott Vita
BobF
2005-06-30 21:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Vita
Post by BobF
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
See page 66, paragraph three. No evidence of a collaborative operational
relationship with al Qaeda or evidence that Iraq was involved in developing
or carrying out any attacks against the United States.
Does that spell it out well enough for you?
No. They just support(ed) al Qaeda behind the scenes. I'm making no claim
about direct Iraq involvement in 9/11. The fact that Iraq has been
supporting al Qaeda is what's at issue. Keep reading.
Scott Vita
2005-06-30 22:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
The fact that Iraq has been
supporting al Qaeda is what's at issue.
Which part of "No evidence of a collaborative operational relationship" do
you fail to comprehend?



Scott Vita
mitch gorman
2005-06-30 23:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Vita
Post by BobF
The fact that Iraq has been
supporting al Qaeda is what's at issue.
Which part of "No evidence of a collaborative operational relationship" do
you fail to comprehend?
and *you* thought right-wingers didn't like to dance! how *silly*
of you, scott!!
BobF
2005-07-01 01:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by mitch gorman
and *you* thought right-wingers didn't like to dance! how *silly*
of you, scott!!
Right-winger? Define right-winger. Would that be anybody that doesn't
jump on the "Trash the prez, we deserved it cuz our country sux!"
band-wagon?

Tell me something. Any of you I-Hate-My-Country-Left-Wingers, not just
Scott or Mitch - If you're so against the state of things, what effort have
you expended towards *changing* things for the better? Or is spouting off
misinformed bullshit in a forum that doesn't matter the extent of your
discontent?

Speaking of effective, I hear Pelosi is looking for staff :-)
Organfreak
2005-07-01 02:41:58 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 20:51:26 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by BobF
Post by mitch gorman
and *you* thought right-wingers didn't like to dance! how *silly*
of you, scott!!
Right-winger? Define right-winger. Would that be anybody that doesn't
jump on the "Trash the prez, we deserved it cuz our country sux!"
band-wagon?
There is no such band wagon. Stop making shit up.
Post by BobF
Tell me something. Any of you I-Hate-My-Country-Left-Wingers, not just
Scott or Mitch - If you're so against the state of things, what effort have
you expended towards *changing* things for the better? Or is spouting off
misinformed bullshit in a forum that doesn't matter the extent of your
discontent?
Yep. I voted against Bush. I demonstrated against the current war,
before it was started by Bush. I belong to a local group that tries to
change things for the better here on the island, and to some extent,
we have succeeded. I have written letters to the Seattle newspapers.
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.

-OF
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 03:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Yep. I voted against Bush. I demonstrated against the current war,
before it was started by Bush. I belong to a local group that tries to
change things for the better here on the island, and to some extent,
we have succeeded. I have written letters to the Seattle newspapers.
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
kudos.

oh, and ditto. well, except for the seattle newspapers. i don't
speak starbucks.
Organfreak
2005-07-01 13:44:48 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 23:52:27 -0400, someone purporting to be
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Organfreak
Yep. I voted against Bush. I demonstrated against the current war,
before it was started by Bush. I belong to a local group that tries to
change things for the better here on the island, and to some extent,
we have succeeded. I have written letters to the Seattle newspapers.
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
kudos.
oh, and ditto. well, except for the seattle newspapers. i don't
speak starbucks.
I don't either, my friend. I drink something by a local independent,
Pegasus. I try not to support huge corporations. Anyway, the morning
paper is very good here. They have a joint operating agreement with
the afternoon paper, which is in court trying to put it out of
business.

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 13:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
I try not to support huge corporations.
Are they all eeeeevile? ;)
--
Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email

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Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Organfreak
2005-07-01 13:52:51 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 13:46:42 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
I try not to support huge corporations.
Are they all eeeeevile? ;)
Of course not, G-whizbo, but Starbucks has some problems. Long story,
and I haven't had enough Starb....er, coffee, yet. Besides, I really
just mean that small companies NEED our support because the deck is
stacked against them, seen?

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 13:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
I try not to support huge corporations.
Are they all eeeeevile? ;)
Of course not, G-whizbo, but Starbucks has some problems. Long story,
and I haven't had enough Starb....er, coffee, yet. Besides, I really
just mean that small companies NEED our support because the deck is
stacked against them, seen?
I buy from the little guy too, but I don't have anything against big
business either. I think they provide a lot of good things too.
--
Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
kitekrazy
2005-07-01 15:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
I try not to support huge corporations.
Are they all eeeeevile? ;)
Is this why we use Sonar instead of Cubase?
Organfreak
2005-07-01 16:09:03 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 10:54:12 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by kitekrazy
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
I try not to support huge corporations.
Are they all eeeeevile? ;)
Is this why we use Sonar instead of Cubase?
Now yer gettin' it!
John Braner
2005-07-01 13:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as hating your
country?

JB
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 13:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Braner
Post by Organfreak
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as hating your country?
the moment flag-wrapped, oxygen-deprived idjits rub their three
neurons together, remember what they saw on foksnooze, and open their
slack-jawed mouths to pontificate.
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:01:22 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 1 Jul 2005 14:55:35 +0100, someone purporting to be
Post by John Braner
Post by Organfreak
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as hating your
country?
Far be it from me to have all the answers about the dumbfucks, but
that won't stop me from trying.
1. They believe in authority above all. Fear-based.
2. There is a cult of royalty that stems from the People-Magazine
mentality.These people want a figurehead in government whom they can
worship and gossip about. I have long thought we should have both a
CEO and a King/Queen to serve those "needs."
3. Inability to see shades of grey on issues. "You're either with us
or against us." IOW, dumbfuckism.

Stop me here before I go crazy.

-OF
BobF
2005-07-01 14:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by John Braner
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as hating your
country?
Far be it from me to have all the answers about the dumbfucks, but
that won't stop me from trying.
1. They believe in authority above all. Fear-based.
2. There is a cult of royalty that stems from the People-Magazine
mentality.These people want a figurehead in government whom they can
worship and gossip about. I have long thought we should have both a
CEO and a King/Queen to serve those "needs."
3. Inability to see shades of grey on issues. "You're either with us
or against us." IOW, dumbfuckism.
Stop me here before I go crazy.
-OF
Too late ... :-)

BTW, I commend you on your actual inolvement and efforts towards your
beliefs.

I still stand by my own. I don't expect to change any thinking here, which
is why I usually don't bother.

The bottom line is that the information available is ambiguous enough that
it will likely support whatever beliefs you already have.

Time will tell.
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:16:24 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 1 Jul 2005 09:10:07 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by BobF
Post by Organfreak
Post by John Braner
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as hating your
country?
Far be it from me to have all the answers about the dumbfucks, but
that won't stop me from trying.
1. They believe in authority above all. Fear-based.
2. There is a cult of royalty that stems from the People-Magazine
mentality.These people want a figurehead in government whom they can
worship and gossip about. I have long thought we should have both a
CEO and a King/Queen to serve those "needs."
3. Inability to see shades of grey on issues. "You're either with us
or against us." IOW, dumbfuckism.
Stop me here before I go crazy.
-OF
Too late ... :-)
I knew I was setting myself up for that one. I like to play straight
man sometimes.
Post by BobF
BTW, I commend you on your actual inolvement and efforts towards your
beliefs.
Thanks Bob! For a conservative dumbfuck <G>, you're allright!
Post by BobF
I still stand by my own. I don't expect to change any thinking here, which
is why I usually don't bother.
I think some of us type it here in order to achive clarity (ha ha) in
our own thinking. You know, thinking out loud.
Post by BobF
The bottom line is that the information available is ambiguous enough that
it will likely support whatever beliefs you already have.
Mmmmmm........maybe. I won't go there.

-OF
Rootbouy
2005-07-01 14:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Organfreak crawled up to the microphone and uttered these words of
Post by Organfreak
Far be it from me to have all the answers about the dumbfucks, but
that won't stop me from trying.
1. They believe in authority above all. Fear-based.
2. There is a cult of royalty that stems from the People-Magazine
mentality.These people want a figurehead in government whom they can
worship and gossip about. I have long thought we should have both a
CEO and a King/Queen to serve those "needs."
3. Inability to see shades of grey on issues. "You're either with us
or against us." IOW, dumbfuckism.
Stop me here before I go crazy.
-OF
Hmmm... that sounds an awful lot like the islamic jihadist's mindset.
Authority based on fear, cult like figurehead, with us or against us....
yep, the dudes must be related! ;-)

RB
--
** Tunes 'R' @ http://rootbouy.sonarama.com **
** http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/rootbouymusic.htm **
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:25:29 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 09:23:55 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Rootbouy
Organfreak crawled up to the microphone and uttered these words of
Post by Organfreak
Far be it from me to have all the answers about the dumbfucks, but
that won't stop me from trying.
1. They believe in authority above all. Fear-based.
2. There is a cult of royalty that stems from the People-Magazine
mentality.These people want a figurehead in government whom they can
worship and gossip about. I have long thought we should have both a
CEO and a King/Queen to serve those "needs."
3. Inability to see shades of grey on issues. "You're either with us
or against us." IOW, dumbfuckism.
Stop me here before I go crazy.
-OF
Hmmm... that sounds an awful lot like the islamic jihadist's mindset.
Authority based on fear, cult like figurehead, with us or against us....
yep, the dudes must be related! ;-)
Excellent point, my dear bouy.
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:17:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Braner
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as
hating your country?
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in Iraq,
and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that Bush did.
They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush takes a hit.
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Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:24:33 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:17:28 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by John Braner
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as
hating your country?
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in Iraq,
and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that Bush did.
They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush takes a hit.
With respect, but for the nth time, that is just nonsense. It's safe
to say that most of us thought Bush was an idiot long before Iraq
happened. You are trying to make our causes to be spiteful and
vindictive instead of having any merit at all.

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
With respect, but for the nth time, that is just nonsense. It's safe
to say that most of us thought Bush was an idiot long before Iraq
happened. You are trying to make our causes to be spiteful and
vindictive instead of having any merit at all.
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
--
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:36:27 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:31:47 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
With respect, but for the nth time, that is just nonsense. It's safe
to say that most of us thought Bush was an idiot long before Iraq
happened. You are trying to make our causes to be spiteful and
vindictive instead of having any merit at all.
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
Oh, OK, I know what you mean and I have an explanation. In the face of
all the "propaganda" from the government and the slight majority that
elected Bush, we are always pleased to see evidence that we might have
been right after all. Hope that makes sense to ya; I believe it.

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
Oh, OK, I know what you mean and I have an explanation. In the face of
all the "propaganda" from the government and the slight majority that
elected Bush, we are always pleased to see evidence that we might have
been right after all. Hope that makes sense to ya; I believe it.
That's about the best explanation I've heard. It still looks like cheering
for the bad guys though.
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Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:44:12 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:40:47 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
Oh, OK, I know what you mean and I have an explanation. In the face of
all the "propaganda" from the government and the slight majority that
elected Bush, we are always pleased to see evidence that we might have
been right after all. Hope that makes sense to ya; I believe it.
That's about the best explanation I've heard. It still looks like cheering
for the bad guys though.
Well, and to be fair, that's how "we" see you guys! On the issue of
respect for other people's opinions, I think we ought to call a truce
in light of this info.

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:47:10 UTC
Permalink
On the issue of respect for other people's opinions, I think we ought
to call a truce in light of this info.
Deal.
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Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Mod Bod
2005-07-01 15:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glennbo
That's about the best explanation I've heard. It still looks like cheering
for the bad guys though.
I think the bad guys see it that way too.
--
Mod Bod
www.Soundclick.com/davemodisette
Organfreak
2005-07-01 15:28:32 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 15:02:44 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Mod Bod
Post by Glennbo
That's about the best explanation I've heard. It still looks like cheering
for the bad guys though.
I think the bad guys see it that way too.
Yeah Dave, key feature of these assholes is that they HATE and fear
democracy. But we love it, right?

-OF
Mod Bod
2005-07-01 18:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Yeah Dave, key feature of these assholes is that they HATE and fear
democracy. But we love it, right?
Yes we do, OF. Now if you want to compare our tactics to theirs in the same
sentence then we have nothing else to discuss.
--
Mod Bod
www.Soundclick.com/davemodisette
Organfreak
2005-07-01 20:05:56 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 18:38:11 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Mod Bod
Post by Organfreak
Yeah Dave, key feature of these assholes is that they HATE and fear
democracy. But we love it, right?
Yes we do, OF. Now if you want to compare our tactics to theirs in the same
sentence then we have nothing else to discuss.
That's not what I'm doing, Dave. I'm just reminding you that one of
our cherished values is supposed to be that we allow protests. And
"they" hate that. So much for searching for common ground with you.

-OF
Mod Bod
2005-07-01 20:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
That's not what I'm doing, Dave. I'm just reminding you that one of
our cherished values is supposed to be that we allow protests. And
"they" hate that. So much for searching for common ground with you.
If you believe that protesting helps the moral of our troops laying their life
on the line in a foreign land then you are right we don't have any common
ground.

I am in agreement with Phil even though we disagree about how we got there. We
need to keep our mouths shut and stand together until we get these two countries
fixed. Once they are on their feet and our troops are home then everyone can
run their mouth as much as they want. If we cut and run now a lot of people are
going to die who needn't. And it will continue. Maybe here.
--
Mod Bod
www.Soundclick.com/davemodisette
Scott Vita
2005-07-01 21:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mod Bod
I am in agreement with Phil even though we disagree about how we got
there.
Clarification:

By "disagree" Dave means "me and all the totally fucking brainless morons
that thought like me" vs. the Phil "I told you so" crowd.

That's how we "got there".



Scott Vita
BobF
2005-07-01 21:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Vita
Post by Mod Bod
I am in agreement with Phil even though we disagree about how we got
there.
By "disagree" Dave means "me and all the totally fucking brainless morons
that thought like me" vs. the Phil "I told you so" crowd.
That's how we "got there".
Scott - whay are you so angry?
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 21:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
Post by Mod Bod
I am in agreement with Phil even though we disagree about how we got there.
By "disagree" Dave means "me and all the totally fucking brainless morons that thought like me" vs. the Phil "I told you so" crowd.
That's how we "got there".
Scott - whay are you so angry?
This is a natural reaction to someone who does something stupid despite
your efforts to talk them out of it, especially when you are also a victim of the end result. You'd be a little ticked off that you are paying the price for something you knew was wrong to begin with. There's no "glee" in that.
Gregor
2005-07-01 21:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mod Bod
Post by Organfreak
That's not what I'm doing, Dave. I'm just reminding you that one of
our cherished values is supposed to be that we allow protests. And
"they" hate that. So much for searching for common ground with you.
If you believe that protesting helps the moral of our troops laying their life
on the line in a foreign land then you are right we don't have any common
ground.
I am in agreement with Phil even though we disagree about how we got there. We
need to keep our mouths shut and stand together until we get these two countries
fixed. Once they are on their feet and our troops are home then everyone can
run their mouth as much as they want. If we cut and run now a lot of people are
going to die who needn't. And it will continue. Maybe here.
What if the troops stay 10 years, or indefinitely? That would seem to
imply that no one should be allowed to question the president or the
administration or the military or where the money is going........ for
the foreseeable future. Talk about a blank check! The ultimate Catch
22; Declare a war and reap the benefits of a moratorium on dissent.
Total uncritical faith in the President - sounds like Democracy in
action? Smells like voluntary martial law.
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 14:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
With respect, but for the nth time, that is just nonsense. It's safe
to say that most of us thought Bush was an idiot long before Iraq
happened. You are trying to make our causes to be spiteful and
vindictive instead of having any merit at all.
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
no, you see a sense of "i fucking *told* you this would happen, but
you wouldn't listen! do you *finally* see what a clusterfuck this idiot
has put us in?"

*that's* what you see.
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Glennbo
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
no, you see a sense of "i fucking *told* you this would happen, but
you wouldn't listen! do you *finally* see what a clusterfuck this idiot
has put us in?"
*that's* what you see.
Along with the hope and desire that things will go wrong, so
you can be right. That's just plain fucked up in my book.
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Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 14:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glennbo
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Glennbo
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
no, you see a sense of "i fucking *told* you this would happen, but
you wouldn't listen! do you *finally* see what a clusterfuck this idiot
has put us in?"
*that's* what you see.
Along with the hope and desire that things will go wrong, so
you can be right. That's just plain fucked up in my book.
WADR, fuck you. you have *never* seen me "hope and desire that
things will go wrong." you have seen me predict right from the start
that this would end badly for the US, and be proven correct time and
time again. you have *never* seen me *WISH* to be correct about that.
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by mitch gorman
WADR, fuck you.
Whatever.
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Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:50:40 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:47:46 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by mitch gorman
WADR, fuck you.
Whatever.
Note to Mitch's righteous anger:

Now, see how I got G-bo to at least look at our side by being rational
and kind? (Note to self also.)
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 16:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:47:46 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by mitch gorman
WADR, fuck you.
Whatever.
Now, see how I got G-bo to at least look at our side by being rational
and kind? (Note to self also.)
that was hardly "anger", although it certainly and deservedly was
"righteous". i'm not inclined to politesse, when someone puts words in
my mouth, or imputes false intentions to me.
Organfreak
2005-07-01 16:59:36 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 12:32:51 -0400, someone purporting to be
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:47:46 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by mitch gorman
WADR, fuck you.
Whatever.
Now, see how I got G-bo to at least look at our side by being rational
and kind? (Note to self also.)
that was hardly "anger", although it certainly and deservedly was
"righteous". i'm not inclined to politesse, when someone puts words in
my mouth, or imputes false intentions to me.
Me neither, dammit! NOW I'm gettin' PISSED! <g>
mitch gorman
2005-07-01 14:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will
get worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a
closer example of where I think this poster was coming from. I
know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
With respect, but for the nth time, that is just nonsense. It's safe
to say that most of us thought Bush was an idiot long before Iraq
happened. You are trying to make our causes to be spiteful and
vindictive instead of having any merit at all.
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
no, you see a sense of "i fucking *told* you this would happen, but
you wouldn't listen! do you *finally* see what a clusterfuck this
idiot has put us in?"
*that's* what you see.
...and the more adamantly you refuse to open your eyes and see it
for the debacle that it is, the harder some of us try to get through to
those of you who appear otherwise cluefull.

of course, some of us have grown so disgusted at the blindness all
around us, that we just find it amusing to poke you every now and then,
just to watch your knees jerk...
Scott Vita
2005-07-01 16:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glennbo
I see a sense of glee with some folks when something goes wrong.
You're mistaking a sense of "I told you so" for a "sense of glee". Say for
example you tell your son not to go picking on other kids not only because
it's wrong but because it's likely to come back on him someday. One day he
comes home having taken a beating in retaliation to his bullying. You
wouldn't be happy to see your kid beat up, but you'd be very tempted to tell
him "I told you so."

This is a natural reaction to someone who does something stupid despite
your efforts to talk them out of it, especially when you are also a victim
of the end result. You'd be a little ticked off that you are paying the
price for something you knew was wrong to begin with. There's no "glee" in
that.


Scott Vita
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:29:06 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:17:28 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by John Braner
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as
hating your country?
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in Iraq,
and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that Bush did.
They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush takes a hit.
Let me amplify my first reply. besides not respecting Bush, I'm quite
sure that most of us were opposed to the war no matter WHO came up
with the idea. If Ralph Nader started it, I would have been upset with
him. I was pissed at John Kerry and Hillary Clinton for voting for it
too. Now do you believe me?

-OF
Glennbo
2005-07-01 14:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
Let me amplify my first reply. besides not respecting Bush, I'm quite
sure that most of us were opposed to the war no matter WHO came up
with the idea. If Ralph Nader started it, I would have been upset with
him. I was pissed at John Kerry and Hillary Clinton for voting for it
too. Now do you believe me?
Yes, but I do see some folks and reporters who are happy to see insurgents
make an advance, because in their twisted minds, it's as if the insurgents
have directly hit GWB.
--
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Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Organfreak
2005-07-01 14:46:28 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutFri, 01 Jul 2005 14:36:47 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Glennbo
Post by Organfreak
Post by Glennbo
Being so blindsighted by hate that one is hoping that things will get
worse in Iraq, because it will hurt the president would be a closer
example of where I think this poster was coming from. I know a lot of
people who despise Bush would hate it if things turned out great in
Iraq, and peace in the Middle East were a result of something that
Bush did. They would prefer for things to get worse, so that Bush
takes a hit.
Let me amplify my first reply. besides not respecting Bush, I'm quite
sure that most of us were opposed to the war no matter WHO came up
with the idea. If Ralph Nader started it, I would have been upset with
him. I was pissed at John Kerry and Hillary Clinton for voting for it
too. Now do you believe me?
Yes, but I do see some folks and reporters who are happy to see insurgents
make an advance, because in their twisted minds, it's as if the insurgents
have directly hit GWB.
I don't believe that for one moment. That would be evil. Most people
are not evil. I don't know any libbies who feel any happiness at what
terrorists or insurgents do. It's just that there are (at least) two
sides, neither side for terrorists, and we disagree. It's that simple.

-OF
BobF
2005-07-01 15:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Organfreak
Let me amplify my first reply. besides not respecting Bush, I'm quite
sure that most of us were opposed to the war no matter WHO came up
with the idea. If Ralph Nader started it, I would have been upset with
him. I was pissed at John Kerry and Hillary Clinton for voting for it
too. Now do you believe me?
-OF
That statement is worth the admission price!

This is the one aspect of this that the lefties (in general) just don't
get:

There is never doubt about where GWB is headed - whether you agree with his
position or not. He says what he means (or trys to, usually getting close
enough that we know what he means :-)) and his actions follow, regardless
of the polls. This earns him respect. Respect for his *integrity*.

OTOH, those lefties you mentioned above, along with numerous others, voted
*in favor* of the war in Iraq. Probably because they thought they needed
to during the campaign season. But now that they campaign season is behind
them, they run from their own actions, claiming GWB tricked them into the
actions they undertook. Think about it. We all look for as much
information we can get from as many sources as we can. These induhviduals
are claiming that one man tricked them into doing something they didn't
believe in - they did't go to the trouble of analyzing the situation and
all available information on their own?! No, they didn't. They instead
engaged in their own form of deceit to hang on to their power, supporting
something they didn't believe in instead of standing up for those beliefs -
or did they? WTF *do* they stand for?

This is the part of politics that I don't understand. Let me rephrase
that; this is the aspect of politics that I can't believe the general
public doesn't get. The politicians, left & right alike, do or say
whatever they need to at the moment to maintain power. They get elected
based on the last few months rhetoric on the current hot issues.

This is where GWB is a breath of fresh air. The "small majority" that
elected GWB did so in part because of the future issues that aren't yet at
hand - trusting his values and integrity and believing that his actions
will be determined by those values regardless of the campaign cycle.
Rootbouy
2005-07-01 14:29:21 UTC
Permalink
John Braner crawled up to the microphone and uttered these words of
Post by John Braner
Post by Organfreak
Nothing earthshaking, but....something. And for the umpteenth time, I
don't hate this country at all. If I did, I wouldn't try to make
things better. People who characterize people like me that way are
using despicable, dishonest tactics. Protesting is American and it is
patriotic. And Teddy Roosevelt, that Commie, said so.
This is the part I don't understand. When did disagreeing with a gov't
policy or thinking the presidient is an idiot become the same as
hating your country?
JB
You know, the US could use this to their advantage. Show average Joe Iraqi
(the ones that aren't completely brainwashed by the Koran) that under
democracy they *can* call bullshit on something and *not* get their head
blown/chopped off or goat slaughtered.

RB
--
** Tunes 'R' @ http://rootbouy.sonarama.com **
** http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/rootbouymusic.htm **
BobF
2005-07-01 01:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Vita
Post by BobF
The fact that Iraq has been
supporting al Qaeda is what's at issue.
Which part of "No evidence of a collaborative operational relationship" do
you fail to comprehend?
I guess you're right. The meetings were prolly about arrangements for a
tea party.

Keep reading. I realize there is a lot of text, but hang in there.

There's a big difference between "operational" and "supportive".

Check out the last paragraph on page 193. The one where distribution of
written reports stopped after the Cole attack - the remainder of the
Clinton administration relied on "informal" communications to prevent
future legal problems - to keep Bubba from getting backed into a corner.

This lack of written material is why you need to read beyond a single bit
to glom onto.

Then read other sources such as the other link I posted earlier in this
thread.
Scott Vita
2005-07-01 04:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobF
There's a big difference between "operational" and "supportive".
And not such a big difference between "collaborative" and "supportive".


Let me ask you this; what exactly do you mean by "support"? Did Iraq supply
al Qeada with weapons, training, "Fuck the USA" T-shirts? Just what exactly
are you claiming here BobF?


Scott Vita
sam booka
2005-06-30 08:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troels Oxenvad
And what exactly is the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
It's a hell of a lot more credible than Michael Moore's case connecting
Bush to Bin Laden.

So do I have to spell it out for you mouth breathers again?
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build it."
Sam Rayburn
Rootbouy
2005-06-30 03:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Michael crawled up to the microphone and uttered these words of wisdom
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
GWB has to start beating the drum again. I suppose too many people started
losing the beat.

RB
--
** Tunes 'R' @ http://rootbouy.sonarama.com **
** http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/rootbouymusic.htm **
Glennbo
2005-06-30 03:50:47 UTC
Permalink
In news:***@216.196.97.131 the killer
robot Rootbouy <***@cablerocket.com> grabbed the
controls of the spaceship cakewalk.coffeehouse and pressed these
buttons...
Post by Rootbouy
GWB has to start beating the drum again. I suppose too many people
started losing the beat.
Clap on 7 and 13. <g>
--
Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to reply by email.
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Rootbouy
2005-06-30 08:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Glennbo crawled up to the microphone and uttered these words of wisdom on
Post by Glennbo
controls of the spaceship cakewalk.coffeehouse and pressed these
buttons...
Post by Rootbouy
GWB has to start beating the drum again. I suppose too many people
started losing the beat.
Clap on 7 and 13. <g>
Shouldn't that be 9 and 11? ;-)

RB
--
** Tunes 'R' @ http://rootbouy.sonarama.com **
** http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/rootbouymusic.htm **
Glennbo
2005-06-30 13:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rootbouy
Post by Glennbo
Post by Rootbouy
GWB has to start beating the drum again. I suppose too many people
started losing the beat.
Clap on 7 and 13. <g>
Shouldn't that be 9 and 11? ;-)
Those should work too. Especially the eleven. ;)
--
Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email

_______ _____ ___ _____ ____
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/ (_ / /__/ _// / / _ / /_/ /
\___/____/___/_/|_/_/|_/____/\____/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Glennbo These go to eleven
Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/jambits
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 03:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do you stay
in America?
C
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a vital
region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the ultimate
triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today because terrorists
want to attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is where they
are making their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll fight them across
the world, and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital
part of the world? What is it about this particular part of the world
that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your administration's
whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain English - is the USA's
interest in that?
Michael
2005-06-30 03:47:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do you
stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained here,
despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June 28,
2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 03:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct of the
Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
C
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do you
stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained here,
despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June 28,
2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Organfreak
2005-06-30 04:14:06 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 22:56:38 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct of the
Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
And your dictionary is missing.

-OF
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:18:14 UTC
Permalink
I searched the dictionary for organfreak. It must be some sort of dark
sexual undertone.
C.
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 22:56:38 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct of the
Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
And your dictionary is missing.
-OF
Michael
2005-06-30 04:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
I searched the dictionary for organfreak. It must be some sort of
dark sexual undertone.
C.
<snort> Look in a "baby names" list... let me know what you find under
"Caleb".

My search says that "Caleb" comes from the Hebrew for "faithful".

To what exactly *are* you faithful, Roger?
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 22:56:38 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
And your dictionary is missing.
-OF
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:52:36 UTC
Permalink
You can't talk about pudd puffers in Canada because you'll be thrown in
jail. That's funny!
C.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
I searched the dictionary for organfreak. It must be some sort of
dark sexual undertone.
C.
<snort> Look in a "baby names" list... let me know what you find under
"Caleb".
My search says that "Caleb" comes from the Hebrew for "faithful".
To what exactly *are* you faithful, Roger?
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 22:56:38 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
And your dictionary is missing.
-OF
Malachi
2005-06-30 20:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
To what exactly *are* you faithful, Roger?
Busted.
Michael
2005-06-30 04:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
I searched the dictionary for organfreak. It must be some sort of
dark sexual undertone.
C.
<snort> Look in a "baby names" list... let me know what you find under
"Caleb".

My search says that "Caleb" comes from the Hebrew for "faithful".

To what exactly *are* you faithful, Roger?
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Organfreak
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 22:56:38 -0500, someone purporting to be
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet
Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
And your dictionary is missing.
-OF
Michael
2005-06-30 04:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
C
Notwithstanding that there's no such *word* as "cowardness"...

I'm a product of proud and independant thinkers, not all that unlike your
nation's "founding fathers".

Know much about world history before 1776? Study it all - even shallowly:
at the very least, so you'll know a bit about what's coming.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do
you stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained here,
despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our
citizens, and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight
them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June
28, 2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Canada has no founding fathers. Canada has a king and a queen.
C.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
C
Notwithstanding that there's no such *word* as "cowardness"...
I'm a product of proud and independant thinkers, not all that unlike your
nation's "founding fathers".
Know much about world history before 1776? Study it all - even
shallowly: at the very least, so you'll know a bit about what's coming.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do
you stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained here,
despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our
citizens, and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll
fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June
28, 2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Michael
2005-06-30 04:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
Canada has no founding fathers. Canada has a king and a queen.
C.
Actually, Canada once was what America always wanted to be: the product and
property of a multinational corporation.

We've grown up since then. Isn't it about time *you* did?
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
C
Notwithstanding that there's no such *word* as "cowardness"...
I'm a product of proud and independant thinkers, not all that unlike
your nation's "founding fathers".
Know much about world history before 1776? Study it all - even
shallowly: at the very least, so you'll know a bit about what's coming.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do
you stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained
here, despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our
citizens, and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll
fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June
28, 2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part
of the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell
your administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in
plain English - is the USA's interest in that?
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:43:58 UTC
Permalink
How are things in Queerbec? Do you think that you will be tying the knot
soon? Will you be registered at some interior design business?
C.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Canada has no founding fathers. Canada has a king and a queen.
C.
Actually, Canada once was what America always wanted to be: the product
and property of a multinational corporation.
We've grown up since then. Isn't it about time *you* did?
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south. You are a biproduct
of the Viet Nam war desserters who crossed over to Canada to avoid
fighting in Viet Nam. Your heritage is cowardness.
C
Notwithstanding that there's no such *word* as "cowardness"...
I'm a product of proud and independant thinkers, not all that unlike
your nation's "founding fathers".
Know much about world history before 1776? Study it all - even
shallowly: at the very least, so you'll know a bit about what's coming.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do
you stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained
here, despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our
citizens, and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll
fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June
28, 2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part
of the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell
your administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in
plain English - is the USA's interest in that?
mitch gorman
2005-06-30 04:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south.
we're none too fond of *your* kind, either.
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Do you mind if we send all of our faggots to Canada?
C.
Post by mitch gorman
Post by Caleb T.
Trust me. We don't want your kind down south.
we're none too fond of *your* kind, either.
Steve Karl
2005-06-30 04:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Roger has a new alias.
Post by Caleb T.
Why don't you move to France? They need idiots like you. Why do you
stay in America?
C
I was smart enough to be born in Canada... and to have remained here, despite considerable economic impetus to move south.
Post by Caleb T.
Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won." - US President G.W. Bush, June 28,
2005 Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a
vital part of the world? What is it about this particular part of
the world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Organfreak
2005-06-30 04:46:13 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutThu, 30 Jun 2005 04:18:41 GMT, someone purporting to be
Post by Steve Karl
Roger has a new alias.
And a new newsfeed and ISP.
Mike in Canada
2005-06-30 03:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Why do you stay in America?
Do you mean North America, or the city?
--
***@Hoser.net
Caleb T.
2005-06-30 04:06:00 UTC
Permalink
No.
C
Post by Mike in Canada
Why do you stay in America?
Do you mean North America, or the city?
--
Organfreak
2005-06-30 04:15:50 UTC
Permalink
On or aboutWed, 29 Jun 2005 23:06:00 -0500, someone purporting to be
No.
Hi Roger.
sam booka
2005-06-30 08:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike in Canada
Why do you stay in America?
Do you mean North America, or the city?
Hey... I wannedda be Mike in Canada!

Oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for G in the USA instead. ;)
--
___________________________________________________________
§àmbµ©á - Sultan of Splitzville
"Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build it."
Sam Rayburn
Glennbo
2005-06-30 13:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by sam booka
Post by Mike in Canada
Why do you stay in America?
Do you mean North America, or the city?
Hey... I wannedda be Mike in Canada!
Oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for G in the USA instead. ;)
Why not? ;)
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sam booka
2005-06-30 08:32:54 UTC
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Post by Michael
"We fight today because Iraq now carries the hope of freedom in a
vital region of the world, and the rise of democracy will be the
ultimate triumph over radicalism and terror. And we fight today
because terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens,
and Iraq is where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them
there, we'll fight them across the world, and we will stay in the
fight until the fight is won."
- US President G.W. Bush, June 28, 2005
Fine. As you say, Dubya. You're the boss.
Tell us though, Mr. President: what exactly *makes* Iraq such a vital
part of the world? What is it about this particular part of the
world that makes it "vital", and what - exactly: spell your
administration's whole rationale out FULLY for us all, in plain
English - is the USA's interest in that?
Well, for starters, Saddam had $22+ billion he stole from the UNOFF
stooges, then distributed among his favorite terrorists. Yep. Those
sanctions sure worked. Way to go, liberals!
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